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Bagel-hunting in Toronto

Tom Molnar

From: molnar@Bisco.CAnet.CA (Tom Molnar)
Subject: Bagels
Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1993 12:01:09 GMT Newsgroups: tor.general
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Are there any bagel aficionados reading tor.general? I'd like to find a place that sells really good bagels. My preference would be a 100% whole wheat bagel, but the more conventional bagel would do.

So far, I've come across Gryfe's Bagel Bakery (authentic) up on Bathurst (3421 Bathurst, north of Lawrence), and they make pretty darned good bagels. Lots of 'em. But no whole grain bagels.

If you have a favourite place, please drop me a line.

Thanks,
Tom


Tom Molnar
Unix Systems Group, University of Toronto Computing & Communications.

John Chew

From: poslfit@gmail.com (John J. Chew III)
Subject: Re: Bagels
Date: Sun, 13 Jun 93 14:30:11 GMT Newsgroups: tor.general
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In article >C8K6px.4G9@gpu.utcc.utoronto.ca< molnar@Bisco.CAnet.CA (Tom Molnar) writes:

Are there any bagel aficionados reading tor.general? I'd like to find a place that sells really good bagels. My preference would be a 100% whole wheat bagel, but the more conventional bagel would do.
But which type of bagel do you mean, Toronto or Montreal-style? I've spent hours debating the merits of the two with friends whose opinions range across the spectrum from "Montreal bagels are too sweet to be eaten except as a dessert" to "Those things they call bagels in Toronto bear as much resemblance to The Real Thing as do the things they call croissants and baguettes there". I tend toward the more moderate view that both have their merits, and ought to be consumed in different ways; but don't get me started on whether or not one can find anything that remotely resembles cream cheese in Montreal.

Anyway, regardless of which you prefer, there's nothing better than a visit to the St. Lawrence Market on a busy Saturday morning to give you an ideal bagel experience. IMO the best bagels there are the Montreal- style bagels fresh out of the traditional bagel oven at St-Urbain Bagel, but you can get decent Toronto-style bagels at a number of other bakeries there. St-Urbain offers several varieties, including whole wheat and seven grain (my own favourite) as well as cinnamon raisin and onion; you can get quite good Toronto-style pumpernickel and to the best of my knowledge whole wheat elsewhere.

As long as you're at the market, pick up some cream cheese and lox. Try the special cherry-smoked lox at Mike's Fish Market, and buy a tub of cream cheese either at the cheese shop on the west side (west of the Future Bakery and south of another good bakery), or some Mandel's at the cheese shop at the south end. I'd avoid the 'special' deals at St-Urbain that package cream cheese with their bagels; cheese should be bought at cheese shops.

And while you've got me going on this thread, would anyone care to trade recipes for the ideal bagel+lox recipe? Mine usually go something like:

John
john j. chew, iii / department of mathematics / university of toronto
poslfit@utcc.utoronto.ca / poslfit@utorgpu.bitnet / poslfit@gmail.com
"My Canada includes... a Lebesgue non-measurable subset."

Ariel Frailich

From: ariel.frailich@rose.com (ariel frailich)
Subject: Bagels
Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1993 14:42:07 GMT
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Tom:

So far, I've come across Gryfe's Bagel Bakery (authentic) up on Bathurst (3421 Bathurst, north of Lawrence), and they make pretty darned good bagels. Lots of 'em. But no whole grain bagels.
Three blocks north of Gryfe's, on the same side, is The Olde Bagel Factory (I don't have the address at hand). They make very good bagels, including whole wheat ones.

Enjoy!

ariel.frailich@rose.com

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From: ariel.frailich@rose.com (ariel frailich)
Subject: Re: Bagels
Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1993 14:43:07 GMT
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John:

And while you've got me going on this thread, would anyone care to trade recipes for the ideal bagel+lox recipe?
Lotsa' dill. Don't know if the dill will stand up to the onion, so experiment.

ariel.frailich@rose.com

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David Wu

From: dwu@cchtor.cch.com (David Wu)
Subject: Re: Bagels
Date: Wed, 16 Jun 1993 22:36:21 GMT Newsgroups: tor.general
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St. Urbain is probably Toronto's best answer to Montreal style bagels, however, they tend to be bigger and have less sesame/poppy seeds than bagels found in Montreal. The first St. Urbain Bakery that opened in Toronto is located at around Yonge and Steeles. I believe that bagels purchased here are less expensive that those found in St. Lawrence market, and they do not sell whole wheat. My only objection to St. Urbain is that the bagels are slightly expensive. In montreal you can get them at a price of 6 for a dollar.

I would say that the best way to eat real bagels is fresh and plain. They must be eaten within 8 hours of purchase (preferable less than 2). Personally, I think that cream cheese overpowers the flavour of a bagel.

You can get fresh whole wheat bagels for 25 cents a piece at Noah's Natural Foods. I believe that they have sesame, poppy, and oat bran covered whole wheat bagels. Unfortunately, the bagels are not too sweet and they taste like they have oil in them.

John Chew

From: poslfit@gmail.com (John J. Chew III)
Subject: Re: Bagels
Date: Sat, 19 Jun 93 04:04:13 GMT
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In article <C8qK4L.29J@cchtor.cch.com> dwu@cchtor.cch.com (David Wu), evidently a bagelophile of the pro-Montreal camp, writes:

St. Urbain is probably Toronto's best answer to Montreal style bagels,
I would dispute the implicit idea that Montreal-style bagels are a question that need answering. Toronto has its own bagel tradition, and while I welcome the diversity that St. Urbain has brought, regarding them as being in some sort of competition with Montreal-style bagels from Montreal seems misleading and unproductive. I believe I heard too, way back when the first St. Urbain opened up, that it was started by some expatriate Montrealers, in which case they aren't really Toronto's anything to Montreal-style bagels.
however, they tend to be bigger and have less sesame/poppy seeds than bagels found in Montreal.
Written like a true Montreal-style bagel lover. Yes, it can be reasonably argued that St. Urbain's Montreal bagels just aren't as Montreal as Montreal bagels from Montreal, especially if you are a seed counter. The dough is definitely prepared according to a Montreal-style recipe though, and if they have changed the size or the extra ingredients to create a hybrid of sorts, I for one find the end result pleasing. And after a few weeks of St. Urbain bagels, the distinction tends to fade in one's memory anyway, at least until one's next visit to Montreal.
The first St. Urbain Bakery that opened in Toronto is located at around Yonge and Steeles. I believe that bagels purchased here are less expensive that those found in St. Lawrence market, and they do not sell whole wheat. My only objection to St. Urbain is that the bagels are slightly expensive. In montreal you can get them at a price of 6 for a dollar.
At the St. Lawrence Market St. Urbain, they are $0.45 each or $4.50/dozen (= $0.375 each). This is definitely more expensive than the usual Montreal unit prices of $0.20-$0.30, but as you pointed out, they are bigger, and besides, a lot of food items are more expensive in Toronto - it's the cost of living at work.
I would say that the best way to eat real bagels is fresh and plain. They must be eaten within 8 hours of purchase (preferable less than 2). Personally, I think that cream cheese overpowers the flavour of a bagel.
Again, this is a Montreal perspective. First of all, a Toronto-style bagel has a salty enough flavour to stand up to and even complement cream cheese, even when fresh out of the oven. But more to the point, it isn't really a question of strong flavours overpowering weak flavours. It's the sweetness of a Montreal-style bagel that blends in with the sweetness of cream cheese and just gets lost. If you get bored with eating fresh Montreal-style bagels plain, you need to try a saltier spread, something like the salmon pate that you can buy in any Montreal bagel shop. (Of course, dipping a Toronto bagel into salmon pate from a Montreal bagel shop is a bad idea, since in that case you won't really taste the Toronto bagel, as it doesn't bring any sweetness to the spread.)

If you do let your bagel go more than 8-12 hours before you eat it, as might well be the case if you don't happen to live near a bagel bakery, all is not lost. Microwaving a bagel works fine in the first 72 hours or so, restoring a good deal of the original freshness. Toasting a bagel is also always a nice idea, at least after the initial freshness period has elapsed; and I for one prefer bagel sandwiches to be made with toasted bagels. That could just be the result of a youth wasted at Druxy's though.

You can get fresh whole wheat bagels for 25 cents a piece at Noah's Natural Foods. I believe that they have sesame, poppy, and oat bran covered whole wheat bagels. Unfortunately, the bagels are not too sweet and they taste like they have oil in them.
There is only one kind of natural foods store bread that I currently consider edible, and I am not about to mention it here as it keeps selling out at the Big Carrot too quickly as it is. :-)

If you go to the St. Lawrence Market btw, don't miss the German bakery on the lower level. Get there early as they tend to sell out of a lot of goodies by noon on a Saturday.

John


john j. chew, iii / department of mathematics / university of toronto
poslfit@utcc.utoronto.ca / poslfit@utorgpu.bitnet / poslfit@gmail.com
"My Canada includes... a Lebesgue non-measurable subset."

Dave Martindale

From: dave@imax.imax.com (Dave Martindale)
Subject: Re: Bagels
Date: Thu, 17 Jun 1993 19:11:19 GMT Newsgroups: tor.general
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In article <C8K6px.4G9@gpu.utcc.utoronto.ca7gt; molnar@Bisco.CAnet.CA (Tom Molnar) writes:

Are there any bagel aficionados reading tor.general? I'd like to find a place that sells really good bagels. My preference would be a 100% whole wheat bagel, but the more conventional bagel would do.
jalsop@seachg.com (John Alsop) writes:
The best place to buy bagels in Toronto is in the east end on St. Viateur street. One block east of Park Avenue.

:-)

I don't think the St. Viateur bagel bakery does whole wheat. The one a few blocks away on Fairmont just east of St. Laurent does, I think, along with a bunch of other flavours: cinnamon raisin, onion, pumpernickel, and I forget what else. Yumm. It's making me hungry.

But isn't it stretching it a bit to call Montreal the "east end" of Toronto?

Dave
(who used to live about halfway between the two Montreal bakeries)